Episode 29: Mike Kaye interview / NFL Draft Grades / Is Year 2 'Make or Break' for Bryce Young?

[00:00:08] Welcome to Keep Purring, a Carolina Panthers Podcast hosted by Ben Tucker and Eric Briggs,

[00:00:14] two lifelong Panthers fans from North Carolina.

[00:00:18] Whether you're a diehard fan or a casual observer, this is the Panthers Podcast for you.

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[00:00:29] Now let's get to the episode.

[00:00:35] Welcome in to Keep Purring, a Carolina Panthers Podcast.

[00:00:39] This is episode 29 and it's been a while.

[00:00:42] It's been over a month since our last episode where we talked about that whole Brian Burns

[00:00:47] situation.

[00:00:48] I know I've been busy, went to Disney World, work's been busy, life's been busy.

[00:00:54] What have you been up to Eric?

[00:00:55] How are you doing?

[00:00:56] I'm good man.

[00:00:59] My son was in a musical and it was amazing.

[00:01:03] Got to see that a number of times this weekend which is great.

[00:01:08] How did he do?

[00:01:09] Awesome.

[00:01:10] Absolutely fantastic.

[00:01:11] Yeah.

[00:01:12] So that was kind of the highlights and looking at maybe doing a trip or two this

[00:01:17] summer.

[00:01:18] So trying to get that kind of stuff planned.

[00:01:21] That's awesome.

[00:01:22] Yeah so we're just going to jump right into it because we have a very special

[00:01:27] guest.

[00:01:28] This is somebody who I've wanted to get on the podcast for a really long time

[00:01:31] and I'm so glad that we're able to make it happen.

[00:01:34] Super excited to talk to him.

[00:01:35] I'm going to bring him in right now.

[00:01:38] It's Mr. Mike K from the Charlotte Observer.

[00:01:42] How are you doing man?

[00:01:43] Hey, Mr. Mike K is a fictional character that exists somewhere but I'm doing well.

[00:01:53] How are you guys doing?

[00:01:54] Yeah we're great.

[00:01:55] We're great.

[00:01:56] We're still kind of riding the high from the draft and I'm already bought

[00:02:03] back in.

[00:02:05] I feel like it's too early but at this time of year man, I always kind of get

[00:02:11] bought back in.

[00:02:12] But before we get into the draft because we do want to ask you a lot of

[00:02:15] questions specifically about the draft and kind of get your thoughts on the

[00:02:19] selections but I wanted to ask you because I'm not 100% familiar with this

[00:02:25] and I'm sure some of the people that might be watching or listening may

[00:02:28] not be either but how did you come to The Panthers?

[00:02:32] How did you come to covering The Panthers?

[00:02:34] What's your background?

[00:02:35] I think you covered a couple other teams, is that right?

[00:02:38] Yeah so I started off in the business and broadcasting in news and then

[00:02:48] eventually after some twists and turns ended up working for SB Nation doing

[00:02:55] a lot of draft coverage and general NFL assignments.

[00:03:00] I kind of made my bones as a draft writer early on and then eventually the

[00:03:05] guy who hired me out of college for my first job was in Jacksonville and saw

[00:03:11] an opportunity to have a Jaguars beat writer for his TV station which was

[00:03:15] a unique thing at the time.

[00:03:17] And so I was hired in Jacksonville, I covered the Jaguars for three

[00:03:21] and a half years all the way up until that 2018 AFC Championship game

[00:03:25] and then from there I went to Philadelphia where I covered the Eagles

[00:03:29] for four years and then from there I was covering the entire league

[00:03:34] throughout the 2022 offseason for Pro Football Network and I just missed

[00:03:40] beat writing and the Charlotte Observer reached out shortly after

[00:03:44] Jonathan Alexander left for Houston and I'm a big fan of the paper.

[00:03:53] I've wanted to work for the main paper in the market my entire career.

[00:03:57] I went to sleepaway camp in North Carolina.

[00:04:01] Charlotte was always one of the two cities that I was willing to go to

[00:04:06] after Jacksonville because I love Charlotte.

[00:04:10] And you know I mean I think I'm in a lot of, I'm in a different spot

[00:04:16] than my predecessors.

[00:04:18] I know a lot of people look at the server as like this launching point.

[00:04:21] Well most of those folks before me were in their mid to late 20s.

[00:04:28] I'm in my mid 30s, have two kids, my wife and kids love it here.

[00:04:33] I love it here.

[00:04:34] I want to be here for a very long time.

[00:04:37] Good, good.

[00:04:38] I really enjoy Panthers fans.

[00:04:40] You know there's, it's a very cool spot to be in.

[00:04:44] A lot of people have embraced my coverage over the last year and a half.

[00:04:48] I was here for 10 days, Matt Ruhl got fired and then Christian McCaffrey gets fired.

[00:04:54] Or not fired, get traded.

[00:04:57] So it was just like I hit the ground running.

[00:05:01] I don't have that built up Matt Ruhl experience but the last year and a half has kind of been a lot especially through everything.

[00:05:11] But yeah we love it so much my parents moved up here.

[00:05:16] I mean this is home and so I'm really enjoying covering the Panthers.

[00:05:23] Well I'm enjoying Charlotte, I'm enjoying the P.E.

[00:05:31] It's fun.

[00:05:32] I shouldn't say, you know I don't want it to be like yeah this guy hates me.

[00:05:36] No I love working for the Charlotte Observer.

[00:05:38] I love who I work with Alex Zetlo's awesome Scott Fowler is tremendous.

[00:05:46] I like the people on the beat even though you know we're nudging each other all the time.

[00:05:51] But I guess that's a long answer so you know.

[00:05:54] Oh yeah.

[00:05:54] I'm really, that's why I like going on fan podcasts because I really think like

[00:06:02] that's part of the lifeblood of this whole thing and so coming from Philly

[00:06:07] with the fan base that they have it's really important I think for beat writers to understand

[00:06:13] what they're covering but as well as who they're writing to and I think

[00:06:19] coming on these podcasts there is a great opportunity to do so.

[00:06:23] That's awesome and we're so glad to have you and looking forward to kind of picking

[00:06:27] your brain a little bit kind of seeing some of the behind the scenes that you get to

[00:06:32] observe and the kind of the rest of the story that you're going to be doing.

[00:06:35] That you get to observe and the kind of the rest of us don't.

[00:06:38] My first question I wanted to chat with you about,

[00:06:42] you know you mentioned while you were talking that the last year and a half have been

[00:06:46] you know a little crazy so how is the how is the vibe how is the feeling and the energy

[00:06:54] different or the same this year than it was at about the same time last year?

[00:06:59] Well I think Frank Rigg brought in this kind of calm presence you know older guy

[00:07:10] you know former player but former player from another era

[00:07:15] you know it was fine I mean I look I've I've I want to say Kanellis is my

[00:07:20] like the seventh head coach that I've covered full time so like I mean you're not seeing

[00:07:30] you're not really seeing like anything really happening in OTAs. That said Kanellis is very

[00:07:36] energetic he's a guy who can relate to the players he's in his early 40s

[00:07:42] you know I think there is like a I mean he's four years older than JJ Jansen right like so

[00:07:50] there's a there's a reliability there's a relatability there he's got a very young staff I mean

[00:08:00] a decent portion of his staff is younger than me so like there's there's like a

[00:08:09] I think there's a relatability factor and a genuineness that you can buy into because

[00:08:14] of that relatability factor I think Frank Rigg was a genuine guy I just think it's harder to

[00:08:20] relate when you're in your 60s to somebody in their 20s right naturally. For all intents and

[00:08:28] purposes Kanellis is a millennial right so like that's not far off from the gen x guys that

[00:08:35] he is coaching you know there's not he's not a boomer you know what I mean like there's

[00:08:42] like a sense of like oh okay yeah this guy's a little bit older than us but you know he still

[00:08:48] kind of understands us and what we're going through. He gets it sure. Yeah definitely so

[00:08:56] can we get into the draft because that's what I'm clamoring to talk about that I want to know

[00:09:00] it's your show I'm here for you so I want to know from your perspective

[00:09:07] what's the main takeaway what's the headline for the draft like did we do a good job we could

[00:09:14] we could give it a grade if we wanted but like did they accomplish what they were seeking

[00:09:19] to accomplish how do you feel about how they did in the draft? I mean I think offensively

[00:09:26] when you have a shorter quarterback the idea is to bring in bigger guys to help I guess

[00:09:37] both shrink and expand the target zone right and so you look at what they brought in they

[00:09:44] brought in Xavier LeGette who is a jump ball dynamo who has incredibly dependable hands

[00:09:49] they bring in Jatavian Sanders who is like a streak of lightning down the seam who is also

[00:09:54] big and can catch in traffic he can also get yards after the catch and then I think like

[00:10:00] you look at Jonathan Brooks which is a kind of a polarizing pick but he's a bigger back

[00:10:05] he runs like a bigger back he uses his size well he can run upright he is a one cut and a

[00:10:13] flash sort of running back and if he is capable of returning from his ACL injury which by the

[00:10:19] way he does not turn 21 until a week before training camp and typically ACL injuries and

[00:10:24] guys that are very young they don't have the deterioration like folks our age I'm just going

[00:10:32] to assume you're in my age range yes the big I mean everyone remembers that right like Willis

[00:10:37] McGahey was one of the best college running backs ever blew out his knee whatever but he

[00:10:42] went on to play over a decade right so I think it's important to keep that in the context

[00:10:48] they clearly feel good about his medicals like if you read any of my stuff you know

[00:10:53] I'm not going to be over the top yeah praiseworthy I'm not going to just completely

[00:10:59] dismiss everything but what I would say is offensively I do think they went in and they

[00:11:04] said let's upgrade running back let's upgrade wide receiver let's upgrade tight end let's

[00:11:08] upgrade the weapons we spent all this money speaking for them they spent all this money

[00:11:15] and so I think when you look at the guard spots they feel really good about that

[00:11:23] I'm kind of curious about how center will go this whole awesome permits been preparing his

[00:11:28] entire life for center thing kind of I mean and yet he's never won a center battle in right

[00:11:36] like if you were a center you'd be a center right like if you went to Facebook you would

[00:11:41] have invented Facebook right like yeah and I think Austin's extremely smart and very athletic

[00:11:47] he's clearly an athletic upgrade over Bradley Bozeman they were going to move on

[00:11:52] I had reported about it for weeks they what is surprising is I can tell you they met with

[00:11:59] a lot of offensive linemen at the combine so for them to not draft an offensive man

[00:12:05] is wild to me that was like the talk of of the combine but I would say you know it just

[00:12:12] based on how the board falls right like they gave up essentially two fifth round picks to move up in

[00:12:20] that second round who's to say that one of those picks wouldn't have been an offensive lineman

[00:12:24] I think defensively I've hammered this home cornerback was if you talked about like

[00:12:31] an overarching need if you said Mike what's the biggest need on the Panthers heading into

[00:12:34] the draft offense period off just off get the offense better but if you ask me positional

[00:12:40] need by and large run away corner corner was the biggest positional need this team had

[00:12:47] I think they did a nice job of getting value late because people that I've spoken to about

[00:12:53] Shaw Smith Wade really like his versatility he played almost exclusively outside corner

[00:13:00] and safety in college learned how to play nickel at the senior bowl and had an awesome

[00:13:05] senior bowl right and so I think when you when you consider that when you consider the

[00:13:13] Troy Hill is going to be 33 this year when you consider that the JC Horn has played 22

[00:13:19] of 51 games when you consider that Dane Jackson is a serviceable replacement level starter

[00:13:28] and then you consider the fact that Troy Hill is 33 and

[00:13:33] you are playing with fire there where it's like well if JC goes down for three games your

[00:13:40] serviceable backup fill-in starter is your number one corner right and so I think would

[00:13:47] I have liked to have seen them get a corner earlier sure but I can't argue with the idea

[00:13:54] that they didn't just make the offense significantly better I think right the

[00:13:58] succession plan for Shaq Thompson as much as they push back on that question if you watch

[00:14:02] the press conference Trevin Wallace is very clearly a succession plan for like they very

[00:14:09] much like Edwin Cooper I don't think it's a coincidence that they traded up the pick after

[00:14:13] Edwin Cooper because typically what you do is when you trade back you have like four or five

[00:14:18] guys that you really like do you think you make it would not shock me if Brooks was the

[00:14:22] fifth of that guy I don't know that for a fact but typically you know as that group dwindles you

[00:14:27] say okay cool we'll trade up if this happens but you look at Trevin Wallace who's maybe like

[00:14:34] I like a couple of ticks short of being Edwin Cooper right like he's got that right profile

[00:14:41] he's 21 he just turned 21 he can blitz he has made all these plays and filled up the box

[00:14:49] score I don't love the pick but I also get it yeah there is no DJ Johnson pick this year and

[00:14:56] I think that is a step forward where if you read and follow along with me you know that

[00:15:02] I've been extremely critical of that pick yeah because I grade on process so you know you

[00:15:08] can go to Charlotteobserver.com we've got like a great deal going you can get a whole

[00:15:12] month coverage really really cheap watch all of our OTA and and all that stuff coverage

[00:15:18] as well as the post-draft stuff but I grade on process and I think the difference between

[00:15:24] what local beat writers do with grading the draft as opposed to national is we're around

[00:15:29] the team all the time so we have a different perspective they're the ones I agree with him

[00:15:33] my background is draft but this year I'll tell you straight up between breaking my arm ahead of

[00:15:39] the senior bowl having a new kid between this coaching search all this stuff this is the least

[00:15:44] amount of tape study I've done in 15 years but I can understand process and I talk to people

[00:15:49] that are around the league that I trust and I talk to analysts that I trust and I will tell

[00:15:56] you like from a process standpoint this made a lot of sense getting that 2025 second round

[00:16:01] pick yes basically raises the grade of Jonathan Brooks exponentially yeah I think on the surface

[00:16:10] while it's very you know running back to position that can be successful early

[00:16:14] from a need standpoint from a value standpoint maybe even from a talent standpoint I would have

[00:16:20] probably given it a total of a c but in terms of overarching value I gave it a b I gave it an

[00:16:25] extra letter grade and so you know I know I'm rambling here and you've might have

[00:16:31] answered some of your questions already you're getting the experience here

[00:16:36] um I think their process was fine I mean I you know I don't think like you look at it

[00:16:44] and you say you know they should have come out with an offensive lineman they should have

[00:16:47] come out with an edge but like I look at mock drafts right from a situational standpoint

[00:16:54] the point of a mock draft is not to give you a wish list fulfillment prophecy right

[00:17:01] it's about trying up scenarios so each mock draft I enter it in a different spot so my I did three

[00:17:08] mock seven round mock drafts my first mock draft was like the general buzz off the combine

[00:17:17] you know pre-free agency you're looking at it one way right and then you do a chaos theory

[00:17:23] one which you might have seen a few weeks ago where I had Nate Wiggins as the second round

[00:17:28] pick and everybody hated it and whatever the point of that mock draft was to see what would

[00:17:32] happen if wide receiver was not the first pick right I always thought they were trading back

[00:17:37] from 39 that's the most valuable commodity for them because 33 they were never going to

[00:17:44] get the value that they wanted for that and the fact that they got a 20 25 second round pick

[00:17:50] actually going back seven spots not 13 yeah pretty incredible I mean that yeah I think

[00:17:56] ESPN they said that that's the biggest overpay in several years and it was yeah wow yeah I come

[00:18:03] from covering Philly where it's like if you cover Howie Roseman you have to understand the

[00:18:06] dynamics of the draft you have to understand opportunity costs and you have to understand

[00:18:10] the salary cap when I got here uh I got a lot of like oh oh he understands the salary cap

[00:18:17] sort of thing for people in the organization so it's like I think it I think and that's not

[00:18:23] to do my own horn I'm just saying like from an opportunity cost standpoint getting a second

[00:18:27] round pick back that you lost in the trade for Bryce Young is huge and while some people are

[00:18:33] going to push back on this on the sediment of you know the 39th overall pick was what they

[00:18:38] got for Brian Burns the fifth round swap the fifth round pick whatever this expands the value

[00:18:43] you can't look at you can't look at a trade as being completed without understanding what the

[00:18:52] value is in return but here I was thinking of an analogy earlier okay because I did get pushed

[00:18:57] back on this because I said this is now what the Brian Burns trade is because they've moved

[00:19:01] and somebody gave me pushback they're like this is like when people think that Kenan

[00:19:04] Kenan Allen was part of the Bryce Young trade well technically you have to have to in order

[00:19:10] for the analysis to be done you have to understand what you're getting in return right

[00:19:13] like Christian McAffrey DJ Johnson the opportunity to the opportunity cost to not have to trade

[00:19:21] back from 39 last year with mingo like and a fifth round pick right like that's really what it is

[00:19:29] and so that's why people are lukewarm on that trade yeah look at Brian Burns like if you lived

[00:19:36] in Jacksonville Florida and you've always wanted to surf and you bought a surfboard for 60% off

[00:19:44] amazing surfboard right a week later right as you're ready to do these things you get told that

[00:19:50] you're going to be transferred to Utah okay you got a great surfboard a great deal on a surfboard

[00:19:58] but that thing collects dust for two years was that a great investment right like right

[00:20:04] I have to look at you have to look at the way something or like probably a better thing

[00:20:09] you get a convertible right and you're like enjoying that you live in in sunny California

[00:20:15] and then all of a sudden your company sends you to you know new work like I mean like

[00:20:24] you know what you mean like you have to understand the process and the fulfillment

[00:20:28] of it like I think like you look at the Carson Wentz trade in with Cleveland when

[00:20:34] they traded up to get him Cleveland didn't benefit at all from that trade whatsoever

[00:20:39] all of their picks were disasters so I think like yeah this makes the the Brian Burns trade

[00:20:45] look better for sure and then by proxy it helps you kind of swallow the pill the Bryce

[00:20:52] Young trade a little bit better if you're really taking a deep dive look yeah um

[00:20:58] I think this draft made up for a lot of the mistakes the last draft if that makes

[00:21:03] sense I think this off-set was about like correct overcorrect over yeah I don't think

[00:21:08] Robert signing Robert Hunt to a hundred million dollar deal was necessarily the smartest thing

[00:21:13] um if anything I think the Damien Lewis signing was much more calculated and

[00:21:18] smart they knew what they were getting in him I'm not a big fan of paying external guards

[00:21:23] whatever anyway that's the that's my rant sorry like I know he's fine man that's great

[00:21:29] normally go on podcasts and they're like hey let's do this back and forth thing but I've

[00:21:33] kind of been sitting on this doing on this for like all day because no this is uh I'm

[00:21:40] working on mostly features this week in case take so you guys are my outlet we appreciate

[00:21:46] it that's how we had you all again we appreciate it um yeah so you kind of mentioned it earlier

[00:21:51] but for me like I've been looking at you know the the draft grades which to me I don't really

[00:21:58] pay much attention to them because you know one one outlet could give the Panthers a b plus

[00:22:03] another outlet I've seen give them like a d minus um so it's so subjective um I'll say for

[00:22:10] me uh someone who doesn't watch a ton of college football okay um all of the defensive

[00:22:16] guys that we picked I had never heard of so I've been having to do a lot of research post

[00:22:21] draft to try and kind of form formulate my opinions on those guys but I had heard of you

[00:22:27] know Sanders and and Brooks and and obviously Ligette is it Ligette or is it Ligette how do

[00:22:33] you say it he the way he explained it it's Ligette Ligette okay Xavier Ligette that's

[00:22:39] how to train your brain right it is your use of reading it it is I like Ligette better but

[00:22:45] either way so like with that pick you kind of mentioned it um I've seen like I was listening

[00:22:52] to I don't know a podcast on YouTube earlier today don't even remember what it was

[00:22:56] because I listen to so many but um this guy was essentially saying that it was a

[00:23:01] terrible decision for the Panthers to trade up from 33 to 32 to pick Ligette Ligette

[00:23:10] because they didn't need to do that and they could have sat on it another day

[00:23:14] and waited to see you know field offers from other teams who may have been interested in

[00:23:20] trading up so from your perspective like do you think that I guess in a vacuum that it

[00:23:25] was a good decision considering like the fifth year option of it all and so who's to say they

[00:23:31] could have waited you know anytime there's right you know I mean trades happen right

[00:23:38] like sure I remember returning to somebody in the media room when when when um Brandon being

[00:23:44] traded back uh with the Chiefs right in front of Dan Morgan and the Panthers and I

[00:23:50] said to myself he knows exactly how Dan thinks so either he's going to if he likes the same guy

[00:23:55] he's going to be able to get that guy if he doesn't well maybe he's doing you know

[00:24:00] Dan is solid and and I didn't really think about the trade opportunity at the time but

[00:24:04] who's to say you know there were teams at the top of the second round that really likely

[00:24:08] get from what I hear um and so look I they had interest in in Worthy they had interest

[00:24:16] in some of the other guys at wide receiver I think like I said with with the trading up in

[00:24:21] the second round I think at some point you have to ask yourself like at some point get your guy

[00:24:26] now the fifth year option we talked about opportunity cost earlier I mean and I wrote

[00:24:31] this I've seen higher stakes trade-up moves in middle school cafeterias like I I mean

[00:24:39] everybody remembers pogs oh hell yeah yes yes you know you get yourself a nice slammer and

[00:24:45] you're you're in business um like a fifth and sixth round swap to get a fifth year option when

[00:24:53] we're seeing contracts like AJ Brown and on Rawlstain Brown um getting the money that they're

[00:25:01] getting to have a guy cost controlled for five years is awesome and if people are using the

[00:25:06] fifth year option right they're doing what Philly just did with Devante Smith where they

[00:25:10] have the fifth year option but you negotiate after the third year because you say hey you

[00:25:15] can either get that fifth year option money right now and and take care of your family and

[00:25:20] get that security or you can wait for that fifth year option right yeah so um you know

[00:25:26] getting ahead of the fifth year option is really important Panthers kind of did that

[00:25:29] with Derrick Brown um right and so it's a good negotiating leverage tactic um I think Brent

[00:25:37] Tillis is very forward thinking the Panthers obviously have a history of using the fifth year

[00:25:41] option on their first round picks which have actually worked out despite all this this stuff

[00:25:47] and so I think it makes sense if if this guy's as good as they think he's going to be

[00:25:53] you know 33 was their first round pick so to move up one spot and secure yourself a fifth year

[00:25:59] option I don't have an issue with it I gave it a B plus I like I likely get a lot I like what

[00:26:06] he does for this group um what's interesting about him is he's an upright runner so you're

[00:26:11] getting like the full six foot one 220 experience running straight at you and

[00:26:17] no thanks terrifying right if you're a corner that is playing off man

[00:26:24] help you man like right did you see did you see the Luke Keakley interview on um

[00:26:30] I think it's K Adams he has that okay so he was talking about the the legette legette pick

[00:26:37] I'm gonna struggle with that for a while um he was talking about that pick and he said

[00:26:42] basically what you were just saying he was like he said trust me defensive backs are not

[00:26:46] gonna want to tackle that guy he's like he's a boy look I was at the the s eunc opener um

[00:26:54] in the press box and I will tell you man like uh I was getting Alshon Jeffery flashbacks but

[00:27:02] he's a much more athletic Alshon Jeffery like he is right fluid um yeah he's not as tall

[00:27:08] but he is I mean people don't remember but Alshon Jeffery used to be like an athletic

[00:27:12] freak before the injuries yeah he became kind of a plotting runner but like

[00:27:18] I think he makes a lot of sense I mean we've seen how canals has been able to leverage

[00:27:24] holler wide receivers Mike Evans DK Medcalf yeah I think that Xavier Worthy would have been a

[00:27:29] great pick there too obviously he went to the Chiefs a few picks earlier when they traded up

[00:27:34] but yeah those were really the two guys to me that I thought made the most sense for them

[00:27:41] they're drastically different players but this team needed somebody who could get the ball down

[00:27:46] field and score right and both of those guys were good at that in their different ways

[00:27:50] it's so funny because several weeks before the draft I tweeted out I was like I just have a

[00:27:57] feeling that Patrick Mahomes is going to end up with Xavier Worthy and that's exactly what

[00:28:04] happened and I am terrified but also excited to see what he's going to do and that's I

[00:28:11] think a lot of fans just being in the Twitterverse and seeing kind of people

[00:28:16] what they were wanting I think a lot of fans were wanted Worthy but then I think there was

[00:28:22] definitely a faction of fans who were a little disappointed that we didn't go with A.D. Mitchell

[00:28:26] but my thing with that was there was never any reported at least unless I'm overlooking

[00:28:34] something I don't think there was ever any reported interest from the Panthers in A.D. Mitchell

[00:28:38] like did they ever even meet with him? Not that I'm aware of but honestly to say the truth 30

[00:28:44] visits as much as Dan Morgan has put an emphasis on them like beyond first round picks it's kind

[00:28:51] of hard to kind of you know what I mean because you never know what's going to happen a lot

[00:28:55] of those are for medical right yeah you know I mean look Harry Roseman is a big guy on

[00:29:01] 30 visits so was Dave Codwell at the time when he was in Jacksonville but I mean

[00:29:09] even if they did meet for 30 visits sometimes that can be a deterrent right because you're meeting

[00:29:13] guys yeah and he fell relatively far basically off the projection so you know I don't know

[00:29:21] and then they drafted two of his teammates so I mean clearly they were watching the Texas tape

[00:29:25] and if he didn't get back to them in that tape then I don't know what to tell you. I mean

[00:29:31] did you think so I guess my last question as far as the receivers of the guys that we could

[00:29:38] have picked at 32 Ligette I think Keon Coleman was technically there Lad McConkey those types

[00:29:46] of guys you feel like Ligette damn it was probably the best choice for us in that spot.

[00:29:55] I don't know I'm seeing all these Keon videos man especially yeah he's funny yeah no I mean

[00:30:03] he's a great club I think for what they want to accomplish and how they want to complement

[00:30:07] the group I mean you know I know that Deontay Johnson came out and said he's the X but

[00:30:13] I don't think that's going to be long lived. I think he's better off at the Z position

[00:30:18] obviously feeling in the slot makes sense but I do think Ligette can move into the slot I

[00:30:24] think they can find mismatches with him yeah and I think the way that this draft turned out

[00:30:30] I think that Ligette complements Brooks who complements Sanders and I think that that's kind

[00:30:34] of long-term roster to my ears yeah so like I like the long term and short term of the total

[00:30:45] package. I like to wear the more than I likely get but I understand the logic of big people

[00:30:54] beat up little people right and that you want a certain type of you know to steal a crazed dog

[00:31:02] yeah look the history of 23 year old wide receivers coming into the NFL and having

[00:31:09] success is not predominant he could be an outlier yeah I mean of course there's that

[00:31:19] whole you know he only had the one year of significant production and I just look at it

[00:31:24] like maybe this is a you know kind of a naive way of thinking I just looked at it like hey

[00:31:30] NFL's or what have you done for me lately league well lately he's been pretty great and so I feel

[00:31:36] like you know I I'm hoping and I feel like it's more likely that the guy that he was this most

[00:31:43] most recently is it's more likely that that's who he's going to be moving forward as opposed

[00:31:48] to the guy who was trying kind of battling through some things and trying to develop his

[00:31:52] first few years but who knows maybe not. I mean so what I would say to that too is his

[00:31:58] traits like they talk about unteachable traits right yeah upside traits his traits are speed and

[00:32:05] size and his hands yeah his hands just aren't going to fall off you know what I mean I think

[00:32:14] his floor is higher than a lot of people want to probably his naysayers want to give him

[00:32:20] credit for I don't know what his ceiling is and I think if there was one thing I was

[00:32:25] going to nitpick about that I think he can be very good I just don't know how yeah like

[00:32:34] he's already kind of a grown man you know what I mean right yeah so it's a matter of can he

[00:32:41] can he get better and I think where that would come is through route running

[00:32:45] and so it's on him to improve as a route runner if he can improve as a technician which

[00:32:51] everybody seems to be hunky dory with canalists and idzik and all these former wide receivers

[00:32:56] coaches then you feel good about it if if he struggles as a route runner he's just going

[00:33:01] to be a jump ball guy and that's what you got right well you know it's interesting like

[00:33:05] sorry go ahead eric I was just gonna say I think in uh you know I can't remember who it is

[00:33:10] a basketball coach or somebody I was talking about you can't coach size right you can't

[00:33:14] coach height right it's the same type thing you can teach somebody how to be a good route

[00:33:18] runner but you can't teach somebody how to grow their hands larger and so you know some of those

[00:33:24] you know you have to be um conscious of uh been I I had another question but did you

[00:33:30] want to say something else on that because I know the only thing I was just going to

[00:33:33] say to kind of wrap up that conversation was that I mean the the lack of um kind of a ball

[00:33:42] winner um somebody who Bryce last year could kind of just in a pinch throw it up to and and have

[00:33:50] confidence that they're going to come down with it that was so glaring watching the games last

[00:33:55] year I mean how many times did we see and not to not to trash on the guy I mean I like

[00:34:00] DJ Chark but like how many times for example did we see Bryce try to throw a ball up to him

[00:34:06] and he couldn't come down with it and I just think adding we get adding Jatavian uh Jatavian

[00:34:12] Sanders two guys that kind of um specialize in that I think is is could be very very big

[00:34:20] for Bryce but go ahead Eric that's all I was gonna say no I was um I'm mainly kind of

[00:34:25] curious as well about kind of you have Dan Morgan kind of the holdover from the previous

[00:34:34] GM regime previous GM regime obviously left us a bit with a shit show so why were we willing

[00:34:43] to trust Dan that Dan Morgan was going to be different than the staff that he was kind of

[00:34:47] already on and how is it how is how is his approach different than what we saw with Fitterer

[00:34:54] it's a great question I think I think it was important for Tepper and logically to have

[00:35:00] somebody who was all in on Bryce Young and the only way you could be clearly all in on Bryce

[00:35:08] Young is to be part of that decision making process and so I think Dan Morgan still being

[00:35:14] part of that process understanding the makeup understanding the circumstances surrounding

[00:35:18] what happened last year was advantageous I think David Tepper really respects Dan Morgan's

[00:35:24] playing background when you talk to people around the league his scouting eye is well thought of

[00:35:33] you gotta remember when you're that second guy in the pecking order it's much harder to get

[00:35:37] your say in than the top guy there's also circumstances out of your control we know about

[00:35:42] Matt Rule having a large say in things Frank Wright had a large sin things last year

[00:35:48] and so your voice kind of gets drowned out Dan's a very direct person very direct if you

[00:35:57] I mean if he doesn't like something he's gonna say something he is not the type to kind of

[00:36:02] just you know while he didn't have the control that he had last year I guarantee you there

[00:36:07] were conversations that he was like you know what I mean like yeah and you know maybe that

[00:36:12] was the case maybe that wasn't the case I just think they've built up this scouting department

[00:36:18] which has not led to a lot of success over the years but sometimes it's about the leadership at

[00:36:23] the top and maybe that's the way they look at it I mean I think look I think this GM job is

[00:36:29] a tough sell externally yeah head coaching job was even harder of a sell a little bit

[00:36:36] um in my opinion uh and I've said that multiple times in print and in podcasts and radio

[00:36:45] and I think the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know in a lot of ways

[00:36:49] especially when you're trying to establish something long term I think look not for

[00:36:55] nothing but Tepper's paying rule he's paying Wright right like two so it's like um and then

[00:37:03] he's playing fitterer probably so like I think I think it was a prudent move I didn't think it was

[00:37:13] the best outcome but I do think Dan's universally revered in that building he is a guy that is

[00:37:20] easy to relate to from a player standpoint for a coaching standpoint he came up the right way

[00:37:25] people around the league praise him I read a whole feature about how he came up in the league

[00:37:30] look at that up on Charlotteobserver.com special going on guys

[00:37:36] and so I think like I think this offseason's been a lot of that is like okay okay I don't

[00:37:44] think there's anything you can look at from free agency and be like oh my gosh that's a home run

[00:37:48] right or but it's also not a terrible one right like just kind of middle of the road

[00:37:53] right I think everything's been kind of middling right which is

[00:37:57] you know if that all works out that's much better than what it's been and I think I think it's a

[00:38:02] really good point Eric but I think I think too like everything's been like oh okay you know

[00:38:10] what I mean like it's not you know I hate to say something to Larry David here but the only pushback I would

[00:38:15] have to that and it's not I wouldn't say this is a home run but I was like a little

[00:38:21] bit shocked when we traded for Deontay Johnson if I'm being honest I knew you were going to say that

[00:38:25] I was because I was not expecting it what Eric and I did a whole episode about the top 10 free agent

[00:38:32] wide receivers and who we thought the Panthers would go after and Deontay Johnson of course was

[00:38:36] not a free agent so he was not on our list and when we traded for him I did like a triple take

[00:38:43] I was like what the Steelers receiver Deontay Johnson okay that's pretty great and the fact

[00:38:49] that Deontay Jackson was essentially gonna be cut right or walk away and we ended up

[00:38:57] I mean and you know Deontay Johnson we'll see if he works out where he's only on a one-year deal

[00:39:03] right well he's in the final year of his deal and so it's basically like they paid him his

[00:39:08] three million dollar bonus but his base salary seven million and that's smart keep him

[00:39:12] incentivized keep him you know he had some locker room issues and it's where he had some

[00:39:16] maturity issues he's got every reason to be on his best behavior here and have a good season

[00:39:22] I think that that's very logical by Brent Tillis and Dan Morgan I would say it's a lot like the

[00:39:27] Jatavian Sanders thing right from a value standpoint it's great yeah but there's reasons why

[00:39:36] like the value is there right yeah like Jatavian Sanders is not going to come in

[00:39:42] block he's not right he's not that type of guy you know he's he's very raw Deontay's not his

[00:39:51] his locker room history he you know he's been inconsistent and so I think like yes they can't

[00:39:59] that's a can't lose trade yeah yeah unless he completely just destroys the locker room that is

[00:40:06] can't lose trade right he is an upgrade there's no question even if he's like we talked about

[00:40:12] trade value and trade return if he plays three games and they win one of them because he went

[00:40:19] off yeah like I mean it's just that's how bad it was last year and so I think from that

[00:40:26] standpoint they basically did nothing I mean like I it's they traded the equivalent of an

[00:40:31] NFL travel thermos like yeah John T was gone he was he was getting a cut that's the reality

[00:40:37] of the situation and then they swapped to six in the seventh round pick and frankly a hot

[00:40:43] take I'd rather have a seventh round pick than a sixth round pick because then you see

[00:40:46] the entire their grades are very comparable but then you get kind of what the situation is

[00:40:53] going to be an undrafted free agency and instead of paying a crazy bonus to an undrafted

[00:40:58] free agent you say to yourself hey let's let's sign the guy who's at the top of our undrafted

[00:41:02] free agent list or let's draft that guy so I think um you know not to be too positive there

[00:41:09] yeah it was it was a great trick don't get me wrong I'm not I'm not uh but I think it falls

[00:41:15] kind of in line with the yeah that's pretty okay cool yeah I get that yeah I mean that's

[00:41:23] that's where I'm at I guess yeah um real quick but we got to get you out of here

[00:41:28] but we have one more question each and then you know let you go Eric you go first yeah so my uh

[00:41:35] just kind of a follow-up to that you mentioned the undrafted free agents how has that kind of

[00:41:41] been approached by the team do you feel like we've been able to plug in some of the holes

[00:41:45] that we were looking for like what what is our staff looking for when they're going out

[00:41:50] trying to find these you know kind of diamonds in the rough so to speak well I think they want

[00:41:55] to touch on the stuff that that they weren't able to touch on in the draft right like I think

[00:42:01] that that's a pretty common strategy and something that seems evident when you look at them

[00:42:07] signing a kicker and a center and yeah you know a safety and another wide receiver right

[00:42:14] yeah so like Andrew Rame is a guy that had a draftable grade by most uh you know draft

[00:42:21] analysts he he played center for Oklahoma I think um Willie Drew a guy I broke that

[00:42:27] signing played for Virginia State he went to the combine was impressive there he also went

[00:42:32] to the senior bowl Harrison Mevis uh the thicker kicker for Missouri like to compete with

[00:42:38] Caniero who by the way only is has 150 000 dollars in guaranteed money left on his contract

[00:42:45] uh Jalen Coker from Holy Cross was that it was a standout at the shrine game I mean

[00:42:50] you know they signed Jake Jack Plummer the Louisville quarterback to be kind of a guy

[00:42:55] another guy to watch out for his mom with running back uh Jayden Sheridan he's getting

[00:42:59] a lot of buzz apparently as well so you know I say this every year undrafted free agent

[00:43:06] agreements can fall through they're based on on physicals and teams until they're signed

[00:43:12] they're you know they're not signed and so yeah um I'm trying not to glean too heavily into

[00:43:18] the under after free agency pool because you never know what can happen like last year

[00:43:23] they you guys end up getting signed during rookie camp and we're all like okay um but so

[00:43:32] you know I mean they had 13 open spots typically teams cut a few you know veteran holdover

[00:43:38] practice squad level guys to make room if they sign more guys obviously there's the flirtation

[00:43:43] with Stefan Gilmour who I think I hope I didn't just spoiler alert Ben's question but like

[00:43:48] there's you know there's stuff going on they're gonna turn this roster I think last year

[00:43:53] one of the things they actually did do well is churn throughout camp um good teams typically

[00:43:58] do that they obviously didn't have a good team a good base to build upon but um I mean

[00:44:05] I think that's where I'm at with that so you did spoiler alert my question but that's okay

[00:44:12] because it's it seems like the writing's on the wall that Stefan Gilmour is gonna be a

[00:44:18] panther again I mean what's the likelihood that it how about this what's the likelihood

[00:44:23] that it doesn't happen at this point I mean the free agency class is not good anymore but he's

[00:44:30] also gonna be 34 this year yeah typically corners break down around 31 32 the only other

[00:44:37] guy that took his age that's performing at a relatively high level of hysteria slay

[00:44:41] uh they also already have a 33 soon to be 33 year old nickel corner so it's like

[00:44:47] um and they're not a team that's gonna compete for like I mean they say they want to compete

[00:44:53] for the division but I think realistically a five to six win season would be um

[00:44:59] a huge improvement for them and a good building block for them like I mean

[00:45:07] Cheedave and Clowney has kind of put them on the spot here right

[00:45:10] what Xavier Zavier Ligette did uh you know I wrote at the time when Ligette had his whole

[00:45:16] interview where he's like yeah they hope that I'm there at 33 well you just put pressure on

[00:45:20] them to not get up on you know what I mean right that's the big analysis after he's

[00:45:26] drafted you didn't have to go tell the whole world man um and so I mean they're being

[00:45:34] very open about it it does seem like there are open conversations and they're in a good place

[00:45:40] but I think it'll you know ultimately come down to the money um as it is with all of these

[00:45:45] situations I think the concern would be we saw what happened with Justin Houston

[00:45:52] and it was like Justin Houston had a solid year the year before I even said they shouldn't

[00:45:56] have signed Clowney they should have gone with Houston I thought that made sense and

[00:46:00] then Clowney benefited from being in that Baltimore defense by the way I don't think

[00:46:04] he's gonna put up nine and a half sacks this year I think you're kidding yourself if

[00:46:07] you think that too or if you don't if you think he's gonna be a 10-sack guy that's just not

[00:46:12] yeah he is everybody seems to benefit from that Baltimore defense um and so I mean do

[00:46:20] you want all these aging guys taking away reps from other people I mean that's yeah I mean

[00:46:26] you know but then again you look at it we talked about it earlier in the show like

[00:46:30] like J.C. Horne can't stay healthy like Dane Jackson is a replacement level starter

[00:46:37] and could easily be your number one corner if you know well based on history the likelihood

[00:46:45] happens you know and so yeah I mean corner is is in a tough spot but also you know you

[00:46:51] alluded to it earlier Deontay Johnson you didn't think was going to be a trade fit I

[00:46:55] mean maybe post-draft there's a guy that doesn't that just got drafted over and is available you

[00:47:01] know stuff like that happens all the time and so you know I'll give you a name James Bradbury

[00:47:09] seems like he is on the cusp of being replaced the Eagles just drafted Quinian Mitchell and

[00:47:15] Dejaune they resigned they also have Darius Slay

[00:47:24] like that secondary is pretty packed they also have like a bunch of guys that they're developing

[00:47:29] that are former like late route underrafted picks like Josh Job and Eli Ricks Bradbury is

[00:47:37] older but he is also younger than you know and likely would be cheaper

[00:47:43] yeah so that's a guy to watch I think if he does get released I don't know if that's a trade

[00:47:49] possibility but he's a guy that I'm kind of keeping my eye on if that were to happen if

[00:47:55] he were to be post-June wand you know it's possible I mean I think Stefan Gilmour still

[00:48:03] playing and he played at a relatively high level for Dallas last year I mean you know

[00:48:07] I don't think he would be a downgrade even with the age and maybe a drop off but

[00:48:13] it does kind of seem like the talks are either progressing or anything right

[00:48:18] yeah we will see okay we're gonna let you go I mean thank you so much you gave us

[00:48:25] almost 50 minutes that's amazing I know you got your Philly's game who are they playing

[00:48:31] tonight they are playing the Los Angeles Angels or the Angels of Anaheim or whatever you want

[00:48:36] to call them down okay yeah well thank you so much we really appreciate it I know I want

[00:48:43] to tell everybody so if you don't know you probably do but you do have a podcast Processing

[00:48:48] Blue right yeah we do um we were on hiatus for a little bit we came back for a draft

[00:48:53] preview we'll do another one soon yeah um but yeah uh I'm joined by Scott Fowler and Alex

[00:48:59] Adlo two really great guys one's an incredible columnist as you probably know and another

[00:49:05] one's an up-and-coming uh beat writer who I think the world of and so you know follow us all on

[00:49:14] twitter look us up and uh yeah make sure you subscribe to the Observer we got a lot of yes

[00:49:20] on your way yes 100 well thank you so much man I'm sure we'll talk to you soon

[00:49:27] and uh we'll be reading your stuff and I always just want to say too always think you

[00:49:31] ask awesome questions listen to the press conferences and stuff so oh I appreciate

[00:49:35] that yeah man so enjoy the game and we appreciate it thank you all right so that was awesome um

[00:49:46] really cool of him to give us his time um I mean I was expecting maybe 20-30 minutes but

[00:49:51] he gave us almost an hour so that was pretty amazing that was great it's it is wonderful to

[00:49:56] have the insight from him that you know you're not going to get really anywhere else like

[00:50:01] you know yeah he's allowed inside the building and he has conversations that

[00:50:05] with people that he can't write about and um so to get his insights on some behind the

[00:50:09] scene stuff I thought was absolutely fantastic yeah so we uh like we said at the beginning of

[00:50:16] the episode haven't had an episode in over a month um and definitely haven't had one since

[00:50:22] the draft so just we don't we're not going to spend a ton of time on it but let's

[00:50:25] let's just get uh talk through the draft like what was your overall takeaway like if you had

[00:50:32] to give it a grade what would you give I mean I'd give us I'd give us a B I think that it

[00:50:38] yeah I think it addressed a number of the issues um first pick obviously wasn't very

[00:50:44] surprising it was reported there was mutual love um and so um that wasn't shocking the

[00:50:52] move up to the one spot was I didn't understand I personally didn't know about the fifth year

[00:50:58] option thing I didn't understand the difference between the first round and the second round so

[00:51:01] that was really cool to learn um and also gave me some confidence that like the GMs know

[00:51:06] what they're doing right like that's kind of a savvy a savvy move to move up one spot I

[00:51:11] thought for that so yeah I liked that I was very surprised you know I texted a little bit

[00:51:16] about it uh very surprised by the Jonathan Brooks trade or not trade but pick sorry um I just

[00:51:22] didn't have running back on it I think it's one of those that the more I thought about it the

[00:51:26] more I understood it but it didn't make sense to me immediately um right I think that with uh

[00:51:33] with Trevin Wallace uh I don't know anything about him but if Dan Morgan is drafting a

[00:51:40] linebacker then I'm in right like you know of all the people to be able to judge how good

[00:51:46] you know a prospect is is the guy that played the same position um and is widely widely respected

[00:51:52] um you know both in the building and throughout the league and then man I was so excited about

[00:51:58] JT Sanders so excited about that is that your favorite pick yeah I think he probably is

[00:52:04] man because he just he just seems like what Bryce needs right like he seems like the outlet

[00:52:13] that we were really hoping Hayden Hurst was going to be last year and um you know so he's

[00:52:20] he's another go get it type of guy running some amazing routes I saw him running away from people

[00:52:25] on some of the highlights that I saw so that was great uh and then I'm not even gonna pretend

[00:52:30] to know who uh fifth sixth and seventh round picks were so I'm just gonna I'm gonna trust the

[00:52:37] trust the process as Mike said I'm gonna go and trust the process on those uh but yeah from what

[00:52:42] I saw I would have liked cornerback earlier that's why I was very confused about the

[00:52:47] Jonathan Brook stuff I would I've been clamoring for a center um I was so glad that Mike

[00:52:52] brought that up I really really wanted one of the two centers um the top two centers coming out

[00:53:00] Frazier and uh Jackson what are Jackson Powers Johnson JPJ yeah yeah so um I really wanted one

[00:53:08] of that I was really disappointed that we didn't get it I'm very very leery of the moving

[00:53:12] over into the center and you know we're all of a sudden gonna have a you know an all pro

[00:53:18] because he's just been waiting his entire life to play center um but I so I give it a B I think that

[00:53:24] the players that we got seem to have good value with them um for me a little bit of a stretch

[00:53:31] maybe on the Brooks thing not sure about necessarily the need maybe a tiny bit of a

[00:53:34] stretch on Leigh get you'll get because we may have been able to get him a little bit later

[00:53:39] but I love the action I love the way you're trying to do things I love that we were

[00:53:43] shaking it up um they know the team way better than I do but you know I'm arm share

[00:53:49] quarterbacking it right now or arm share GMing it right now and I would have liked to have a

[00:53:53] center um and would have had like to had a probably higher quality and more versatile

[00:53:59] cornerback as opposed to a guy that probably is only going to be able to play nickel even by

[00:54:03] his own uh you know comments yeah what about you how'd you come away from it

[00:54:09] I'd probably give it a B plus um I think so I came into this off season um my perspective

[00:54:20] coming into this off season was okay the offense was putrid just absolutely awful well I mean

[00:54:30] it was such a it was painful to watch um we had a pretty good defense we've had traditionally

[00:54:39] in Carolina pretty good defenses over the years and lackluster offenses well we drafted a

[00:54:47] quarterback number one overall last year so when you do that the hope is that um you can put

[00:54:53] pieces around him and have uh you know a capable and dare I say exciting brand of offense

[00:55:01] um but that wasn't the case and so going into this off season for me and I know that

[00:55:07] not everyone was like this for me my number one priority or desire as a as a fan was to prioritize

[00:55:14] the offense and I even went so far as to say I'm okay with us kind of sacrificing the defense

[00:55:23] a little bit to bump up the offense if necessary I agree with you yep we traded we obviously

[00:55:28] traded Brian Burns um which some people were upset about and some people were like thank

[00:55:33] god we finally did that um as we talked about with Mike we used we essentially used the assets

[00:55:41] that we got from the Brian Burns trade to not only uh get uh get our second round pick back

[00:55:49] for next year but also to trade up to draft Jonathan Brooks so um we recouped uh some of

[00:55:59] the value we had lost in the Bryce Young trade as well with that and so for me that's what kind

[00:56:05] of bumps my grade up I think to a b plus um then when you talk about just the players

[00:56:11] specifically like we've talked about like you and I don't or you watch more college football

[00:56:16] than I do I don't watch really very much college football at all I don't have a specific

[00:56:21] team and so I think that impacts me not watching it so like kind of like you um all four of

[00:56:28] the defensive picks that we I think the only one that I'd actually heard of was Michael Barrett

[00:56:35] from Michigan Michigan of course just won the national championship and I think I kind of read

[00:56:40] something about him at one point but Trevin Wallace Shaw Smith Wade Jaden Crumity however

[00:56:47] you say his name like never heard of them and it's kind of that thing where it's like

[00:56:51] okay I'm just going to trust that Dan Morgan and co knows what they're doing with those

[00:56:56] but so really for me I'm focusing mainly on the offense and holy crap we upgraded big time and

[00:57:05] I know they're all rookies and it's going to take them some time but I was as you know I

[00:57:11] was pretty high on Xavier Ligette um he was like we talked about with Mike like the the

[00:57:19] Xavier Worthys of the world um I was higher on like that speed man you just can't yeah you can't

[00:57:26] you can't teach that you can't replace that right and the fact that I think Patrick Mahomes

[00:57:32] now has him is just it's over for the league like dude I saw some I saw some videos of it

[00:57:39] and it was wild there somebody released some videos from um practice or whatever they were

[00:57:45] doing with with the two of them um playing catch it was it's the ball went a long way

[00:57:52] it's not going to be fair yeah but so outside of that like um I was actually

[00:58:00] higher on Ligette I think than some or than most fans like I liked Ligette over Keon Coleman

[00:58:08] I liked Ligette over Lad McConkey um not because I think he's a better player than McConkey but

[00:58:17] because of what he would bring to specifically to the Panthers offense and how he would complement

[00:58:24] Deontay Johnson Deontay Johnson is your route technician who's going to get open very quickly

[00:58:31] and he's one of the best separators in the NFL that's not Xavier Ligette's game

[00:58:36] he's a big-bodied physical you know contested catch ball winner gonna go up and get it type

[00:58:43] of guy and and he's got speed he ran in the four threes at the combine so he's big and

[00:58:49] he's fast and I just thought that that's exactly what Bryce needs is a guy like that

[00:58:55] yeah well guess what we went and got two of those types of guys because your favorite pick

[00:59:00] Jatavian Sanders that's what he provides too yeah he is he is like like Mike was saying

[00:59:06] like he is not a he does not excel with like run blocking pass blocking he is a pass catching

[00:59:14] tied in he's almost like a receiver out there yeah and well we go ahead yeah no I was just

[00:59:21] gonna say I was agreeing with you you might be getting me to a B plus um but you know we got

[00:59:29] we got the number one running back in the draft and we got the number two tied in in the draft

[00:59:35] yeah according at least according to pff it was they were Sanders was pff's number two

[00:59:40] tight end well they're they're I'll you know hold their uh I'll defer to them

[00:59:47] yeah like you know I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna go against them excuse me but um

[00:59:54] um but I just you know I I liked I liked we get um but I didn't get to watch him all that much

[01:00:04] uh I love hearing his interviews they're absolutely fantastic gosh um and you know

[01:00:11] yeah it's great and you know he he released some video of you know the day after the

[01:00:16] draft or two days later or whatever it was he was out doing cone drills and stuff

[01:00:19] um and he seems to have an amazing work ethic so um you know I guess that we can we can grade

[01:00:27] it B plus B whatever it really just depends on how good Jonathan Brooks ends up being to me

[01:00:34] top notch then well the thing that I love about the Brooks pick is um and part of this I think

[01:00:40] is because I work with a Cowboys fan who is very vocal and uh a little arrogant about his

[01:00:46] team uh America's team and um you know Jerry Jones uh was very vocal that he will he like

[01:00:55] he wanted Jonathan Brooks he screwed that up so bad he screwed it up so bad and the fact that

[01:01:00] we traded him up and and leapfrog the Cowboys to get Jonathan Brooks makes me so happy but

[01:01:08] when you watch here's the other thing about Brooks that I that a lot of people have pointed

[01:01:12] out that is very um relevant um he sat behind Bijan Robinson for a couple years and he does

[01:01:23] not have a lot of tread on those tires like he comparatively he has I don't know 200 to 250

[01:01:31] carries or something like that whereas you know Bijan Robinson may have had five or 600

[01:01:36] carries for example in college yeah and but the one year that Jonathan Brooks was the starter

[01:01:43] of course he did end up you know getting injured as we know but that one year

[01:01:48] he was phenomenal and when you watch him I've seen some comparisons that people have made

[01:01:53] when you watch him run he kind of runs like Aaron Jones he kind of runs like a

[01:01:58] like an Aaron Jones Melvin Gordon um I've also seen him compared to um I saw Joel Clatt who um

[01:02:08] calls college football games and has a podcast and all this stuff he said it's not like he

[01:02:13] he wasn't saying Jonathan Brooks is going to be these players but he said he is in the mold

[01:02:18] of a Jameer Gibbs a Bijan Robinson a Christian McCaffrey because he has the dual threat

[01:02:26] ability yeah so hopefully everything checks out you know with the knee it sounds like it sounds

[01:02:33] they must be confident that it will otherwise they wouldn't have picked him in the second

[01:02:37] round so hopefully it does and um hey I still I still like Chuba Hubbard I still think Chuba

[01:02:43] Hubbard should have a significant role on the team and I think he'll start the season out

[01:02:48] as the starter it's going to be really interesting to see kind of what the running back room

[01:02:53] looks like because now you've got when you add Brooks you've got Jonathan Brooks Hubbard

[01:02:59] obviously Miles Sanders and then Blackshear so are we going to keep all four I don't know if

[01:03:04] Miles Sanders is going to be around long term yeah I'm not sure that he will uh and I

[01:03:10] I don't get into all the contract stuff I don't know how that would screw us over there

[01:03:14] but you know Blackshear was coming on at the end of last year he continued to show flashes

[01:03:18] whenever he was given the opportunity to get into a game I enjoyed watching him and um

[01:03:26] you know he and ISM just you know they seemed electric every time they touched the ball

[01:03:32] something might happen yeah and so I'm hoping that we retain that lightning in a bottle type

[01:03:37] of ability so you know I think if Jonathan Brooks turns into who he can be then he's

[01:03:46] going to be the number one back you know a quarter of the way into the season type thing

[01:03:53] but at the very least we have Truba Hubbard who was serviceable um you know the second half

[01:03:59] of last year and I was impressed by him last year yeah but I mean he has nothing to write

[01:04:05] home about right like he's not going to make it you know win any awards but he doesn't have

[01:04:09] like any elite traits or anything like that no but he was a dependable solid running back

[01:04:13] who is going to fall forward and get you a yard instead of losing a yard and that's you know that

[01:04:19] was okay uh yeah so anyway yeah I'm excited about it uh um I know nothing about the

[01:04:26] undrafted free agents but I'm well and one more thing about the running backs by the way

[01:04:30] like I 100% I would love to see Miles Sanders bounce back I mean he was I for sure he was

[01:04:37] like we talked about before last season like he had some great years in Philadelphia

[01:04:44] and I think if anybody can figure out how to utilize him correctly I feel like Canales and

[01:04:50] that staff can kind of figure that out but I don't know it depends on it depends on what

[01:04:55] they're looking for we'll see but um anyway draft um you know B plus I think it was

[01:05:03] I'm excited by it because I'm more I'm just more offensive minded and offensive focused

[01:05:09] anyway as a fan and so to have a an offensive um heavy at least you know three out of the first

[01:05:17] four picks being offense and um then it being so clear that they're making a concerted effort

[01:05:24] to to surround Bryce with more help yeah that's what that's what that's what makes me happy

[01:05:30] that's what makes me kind of give it a better a better grade anything else about the

[01:05:35] draft or anything on your end before we do our last little topic here no but I don't think so

[01:05:41] I've always thought that like the Saturday of the draft like the end of the draft is like

[01:05:47] the one day that everybody has hope for their team yeah you know what I mean because anything

[01:05:52] can happen with any of their picks uh you know and so like there's hope that like you

[01:05:58] might have gotten the steal of the draft or whatever and uh so I love this time of year

[01:06:03] because generally most fan bases are uh are optimistic and are looking forward to it uh

[01:06:09] nobody's jaded quite yet we haven't uh had you know starting to see practices or anything where

[01:06:15] we can see how bad our team really is and uh so I just I love this time of year um because

[01:06:22] everybody can be you know everybody can be filled with hope just like you were saying

[01:06:25] earlier yeah we can all be delusionally hopeful absolutely that's what we're fans

[01:06:31] we're fanatics we're literally in our name yes exactly okay last thing so

[01:06:45] since the draft this has been this topic has been floated out there on on the twitter

[01:06:53] on x and the topic is this um year two is a make or break year for Bryce Young

[01:07:04] agree or disagree what do you think I don't well I think that in order for me to agree

[01:07:14] or disagree and not to split hairs here but I would what would constitute a success

[01:07:20] mm-hmm right like if it's gonna be a make or break year what is the make

[01:07:25] what like what do we have to get to I think that's subjective and that and that's my whole

[01:07:30] point and so like it's almost impossible to say is that a make or break year I think that you

[01:07:35] know if we got to five or six wins and he had some solid games like we saw the Green Bay

[01:07:40] game last year we saw the Texas uh game or Texans game um if he can have some more of

[01:07:48] those games and clearly see improvement yeah I think that's I think that's success that's a

[01:07:56] win and if that happens that's a win that's a make um I think that of all the young

[01:08:03] quarterbacks that I've seen coming out of college yeah um Bryce Young's mental game

[01:08:10] and psychological game is top notch so if anybody is going to be able to um

[01:08:19] fight back about two bad years or against two bad years I think he's gonna be the one that's

[01:08:24] gonna be able to do it um but I don't think it's a yeah I mean I just don't view this as

[01:08:32] a make or break year we don't have to get to 11 wins to prove that he was the right pick

[01:08:37] right and I think to your point of like what is it's subjective and like what exactly would

[01:08:42] define make or break I think that what I took issue with that I saw a couple people kind of

[01:08:50] talking about was them essentially saying um it's year two they've traded for Deontay Johnson

[01:09:00] they've added a couple of offensive linemen they've drafted some offensive weapons so Bryce

[01:09:07] has zero excuses going into year two and if he doesn't perform the Panthers are going to be

[01:09:14] looking for looking at drafting another quarterback next year that's what that's what

[01:09:18] I've seen people saying when you try to define make or break is that yeah if he doesn't have

[01:09:24] a good year this year he has no excuses and uh they're gonna be looking for another quarterback

[01:09:31] and that's where I say no absolutely not because here's why year one was essentially a throwaway

[01:09:42] and that and that's not just me saying that there's there's people all across the the

[01:09:47] football world and the media you know that know way more than I do about football that

[01:09:53] have said the same exact thing you can't properly evaluate Bryce Young off of last year

[01:10:01] you just can't now are there things that are there certain takeaways are there are there

[01:10:07] things that he needs to work on yes 100 like I think he needs to work on his deep ball

[01:10:14] accuracy I need I think he needs to work on quicker decision making I thought there were

[01:10:20] times where he held on to the ball too long it's all it's almost like he was going through his

[01:10:24] reads too much and was hesitant to pull the trigger I think he can work on his situational

[01:10:32] awareness at times you know there were some strip sacks that turned into fumbles which isn't

[01:10:37] totally his fault um you know that's that's partly on the offensive line but there were

[01:10:43] strip sacks there were times where like he clearly could have taken off and run and he

[01:10:48] didn't there were times where he was holding on to the ball too long and you know ended up

[01:10:53] throwing it out of bounds and you know maybe he could have made a play so like my point is

[01:10:59] there yes there are things that it was evident in watching the games that there are things

[01:11:04] that he could improve upon but for the most part the guy was sacked 62 times he evaded

[01:11:13] probably 30 or 40 more sacks if we're being honest he had he had a very bad receiving core

[01:11:25] slow can't get open his coach was fired he offensive coordinators flip flopping

[01:11:33] back and forth between yeah frank reich and thomas brown and back to frame so just my

[01:11:39] point is in my opinion his true evaluation as like the franchise quarterback begins this year

[01:11:47] brand new coach brand new offensive scheme new players they're gonna give brice and canals

[01:11:54] at least a couple of years i don't think there's any doubt about that and i think

[01:12:00] if temper doesn't then there should be a riot right well he has to he has to for what they

[01:12:06] gave up to get brice and just you know everything that's happened since then

[01:12:11] and you've got a brand new coach now you know they fired frank reich after what seven or

[01:12:16] eight games or whatever it was last year 10 games was it 10 games 11 yeah i think it was

[01:12:21] 10 or 11 games 10 or 11 games that's not happening with canals he's gonna give canals

[01:12:26] a longer leash and so that that's that's my whole point is just like i think it's

[01:12:33] ridiculous to say that this is a make or break year for bryce young yeah should we expect him

[01:12:38] to perform better absolutely considering the things around him but it's also going to take

[01:12:43] time like this is they're gonna be installing a brand new scheme that they all have to learn

[01:12:50] yeah and so i think a win would be like you said if we can come away from this season with

[01:12:56] like five to seven wins and win and be competitive then that's a win yep 100 100% yeah i think that

[01:13:06] the uh i think that that approach or perspective that let's make a break is

[01:13:15] i mean frankly bullshit like it's just yes i agree literally you know pretty much across

[01:13:21] the board people were saying that you cannot judge bryce young after this season at all right

[01:13:29] you know you could have put aaron rogers behind that line and we might have won if you know a

[01:13:33] few more games but he still would have been on the ground a whole lot um and and he would

[01:13:40] have been very frustrated yeah and just you know and he he would have shown that he was

[01:13:45] more frustrated than bryce showed bryce was you know even keeled nice and level um never too high

[01:13:52] never too low type thing right um i think that he's going to come into this year with a bit of

[01:13:57] a renewed uh pep in his step i saw it in the paris conferences yeah he was he was a different

[01:14:04] player uh in the press conferences and um was more i think a little bit more relaxed a

[01:14:10] little bit more playful like you know he's done this before you know yeah when he was

[01:14:14] here last year it was all new in those first couple of games we saw he was like holy shit

[01:14:19] the game is fast yeah right like we saw some of that getting picked off in atlanta and

[01:14:24] yeah same kind of like the same thing so there's going to be those bumps in the

[01:14:28] roads and we're going to have more of them now because he has a better team around him

[01:14:33] we're going to be in different situations and different circumstances than we were in a lot of

[01:14:37] last year yeah which is it's going to be new to him all over again right we talk

[01:14:43] about the veterans why are some of the veterans so good because they've seen it all right they've

[01:14:46] seen it before they recognize it he hasn't had the opportunity to see a whole lot of it so

[01:14:52] he's had like a season worth but it's not i don't know that it's that realistic so anyway

[01:14:59] i i think that that's a short-sighted uh and ridiculous approach and clearly not the approach

[01:15:07] of somebody who just gave up that much draft capital to go get them you're not going to

[01:15:11] give up on them after a second year um how many years has um at this point how many years has

[01:15:19] daniel jones gotten oh my god i don't i still don't understand that i still have he seems

[01:15:25] like he's been in the league for like nine years i know that's not the case at all but

[01:15:30] he's been with them for at least three what four years maybe this is fifth year coming up

[01:15:37] i don't know but keep talking i'm gonna find out it's just it's just again not to belabor

[01:15:43] the point but just the whole thing the the the notion that year two is a make or break

[01:15:50] year for bryce young to me is is just it's bullshit it's asinine like um this is uh this

[01:15:57] is daniel jones's sixth year sixth year okay well there you go

[01:16:08] draft like it or not like it or not bryce is going to be the quarterback the starting

[01:16:13] quarterback for the panthers in 2024 and in 2025 and maybe even in 2026 we'll see what

[01:16:22] happens but they're going to squeeze all the juice out of this lemon that they possibly can

[01:16:29] but guess what now now he's actually set up to succeed now he's definitely better off than he

[01:16:37] was he's better now we can actually we can actually see like okay can he can he play

[01:16:44] you know he's gonna it's obviously the caveat there is he's gonna have to be learning a new

[01:16:48] playbook and he's working with a bunch of new players and a new coach and all that stuff

[01:16:53] so there is going to be a learning curve and it's not going to be perfect

[01:16:57] and i definitely fans need to not have you know bloated expectations going into this season

[01:17:04] thinking we're gonna win 10 or 11 games just because we drafted

[01:17:08] you know some exciting rookie offensive players we're probably not going to win more than

[01:17:14] five or six games but you never know anyway stranger things have happened

[01:17:22] stranger things have happened all right you're off your soapbox now

[01:17:27] for now okay yeah i'll probably go on like a twitter rant later um anything else on your end

[01:17:45] i think i think it's great to be back good to be uh good to have uh the panthers you know

[01:17:50] things happening again it's good to be able to chat about them after the draft we have a

[01:17:54] little bit better idea of kind of what we're going to be working with and i think that that

[01:17:57] always you know helps me bring things into perspective so really looking forward to it

[01:18:02] looking forward to kind of getting you know sitting back in this chair with you uh talking

[01:18:06] more panthers and uh excited for the season ahead yeah man ota's gonna be exciting um

[01:18:15] obviously training camp and then i'm looking forward to the i hope they do like the uh the camp

[01:18:22] confidential videos again i'd like to see it too some i love seeing that the behind the scenes

[01:18:28] stuff i just think it's fascinating wouldn't mind a wouldn't mind the panthers being on

[01:18:32] hard knocks maybe we can start a petition or something i think that's probably already been

[01:18:39] decided uh but you know anyway we're it's gonna be good looking forward to it looking excited

[01:18:46] about the season yeah me too all right well that's going to do it for tonight um thank you

[01:18:52] everybody for watching um thank you for your time support don't forget if you're if you're

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[01:19:01] appreciate it um have a great rest of your week and i'm sure we'll we'll be back soon

[01:19:07] until next time keep purring and keep pounding